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	<title>Comments on: The Missing Definition of Morality</title>
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	<link>http://www.clockbackward.com/2009/07/22/the-missing-definition-of-morality/</link>
	<description>A Mathematician Writes About Philosophy, Science, Rationality, Ethics, Religion, Skepticism and the Search for Truth</description>
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		<title>By: clockbackward</title>
		<link>http://www.clockbackward.com/2009/07/22/the-missing-definition-of-morality/comment-page-1/#comment-1713</link>
		<dc:creator>clockbackward</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 27 Dec 2009 04:25:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.clockbackward.com/?p=383#comment-1713</guid>
		<description>I would absolutely agree with you that phrase #6 does not capture the meaning of the word &quot;moral&quot; as most people use it... but it does indeed capture the meaning of the word as strict utilitarian&#039;s use it. To a utilitarian who believes in the existence of absolute and immutable morality the phrase &quot;he reduced the total net happiness of society, but there is nothing wrong with that&quot; is a lot like saying &quot;he did something wrong but it was not wrong.&quot; Such a person generally believes that being bad is equivalent to reducing (or at least, having the intention to reduce) utility. If you assume that your ethical beliefs are the one and only TRUE ethical beliefs, as many people do, then you will likely think that everyone should follow those ethics too (for reasons generally left unspecified).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I would absolutely agree with you that phrase #6 does not capture the meaning of the word &#8220;moral&#8221; as most people use it&#8230; but it does indeed capture the meaning of the word as strict utilitarian&#8217;s use it. To a utilitarian who believes in the existence of absolute and immutable morality the phrase &#8220;he reduced the total net happiness of society, but there is nothing wrong with that&#8221; is a lot like saying &#8220;he did something wrong but it was not wrong.&#8221; Such a person generally believes that being bad is equivalent to reducing (or at least, having the intention to reduce) utility. If you assume that your ethical beliefs are the one and only TRUE ethical beliefs, as many people do, then you will likely think that everyone should follow those ethics too (for reasons generally left unspecified).</p>
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		<title>By: Julia</title>
		<link>http://www.clockbackward.com/2009/07/22/the-missing-definition-of-morality/comment-page-1/#comment-1711</link>
		<dc:creator>Julia</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 27 Dec 2009 03:52:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.clockbackward.com/?p=383#comment-1711</guid>
		<description>Great article!  

I agree with you that when people are asked what they mean by &quot;Murder is immoral,&quot; they tend to reply with some variant of one of the definitions on your list. But I don&#039;t think most of those definitions actually capture what people mean by the word &quot;moral&quot; at all. 

For example, your #6, what I might dub the most utilitarian definition of &quot;moral&quot;:
&quot;...usually reduces the total net happiness of society.

I don&#039;t think this works as a definition because when you exchange the word &quot;moral&quot; with phrase #6 in certain sentences, they go from sensible to nonsense. For example:

(A) &quot;He reduced the total net happiness of society, but there&#039;s nothing wrong with that.&quot;
(B) &quot;He acted immorally, but there&#039;s nothing wrong with that.&quot;

Most people would agree that (A) is a meaningful sentence, even if they disagree with it. But I think most people would also agree that (B) is not a meaningful sentence. To say &quot;there&#039;s nothing wrong with acting immorally&quot; feels like a contradiction to us. Which I think proves that phrase #6 doesn&#039;t actually capture the meaning of the word &quot;moral&quot; as people use it -- and I think any wholly descriptive attempt to define morality will fail for the same reason. The word &quot;moral&quot; describes how people SHOULD act (so it&#039;s normative), which is a separate thing from describing what the result will be if people DO act a certain way (which would be descriptive, like your #6).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great article!  </p>
<p>I agree with you that when people are asked what they mean by &#8220;Murder is immoral,&#8221; they tend to reply with some variant of one of the definitions on your list. But I don&#8217;t think most of those definitions actually capture what people mean by the word &#8220;moral&#8221; at all. </p>
<p>For example, your #6, what I might dub the most utilitarian definition of &#8220;moral&#8221;:<br />
&#8220;&#8230;usually reduces the total net happiness of society.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t think this works as a definition because when you exchange the word &#8220;moral&#8221; with phrase #6 in certain sentences, they go from sensible to nonsense. For example:</p>
<p>(A) &#8220;He reduced the total net happiness of society, but there&#8217;s nothing wrong with that.&#8221;<br />
(B) &#8220;He acted immorally, but there&#8217;s nothing wrong with that.&#8221;</p>
<p>Most people would agree that (A) is a meaningful sentence, even if they disagree with it. But I think most people would also agree that (B) is not a meaningful sentence. To say &#8220;there&#8217;s nothing wrong with acting immorally&#8221; feels like a contradiction to us. Which I think proves that phrase #6 doesn&#8217;t actually capture the meaning of the word &#8220;moral&#8221; as people use it &#8212; and I think any wholly descriptive attempt to define morality will fail for the same reason. The word &#8220;moral&#8221; describes how people SHOULD act (so it&#8217;s normative), which is a separate thing from describing what the result will be if people DO act a certain way (which would be descriptive, like your #6).</p>
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		<title>By: clockbackward</title>
		<link>http://www.clockbackward.com/2009/07/22/the-missing-definition-of-morality/comment-page-1/#comment-597</link>
		<dc:creator>clockbackward</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 25 Aug 2009 15:30:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.clockbackward.com/?p=383#comment-597</guid>
		<description>&quot;Murder is wrong because God forbids it&quot; is a claim that wrongness is defined by whatever God commands us not to do, whereas &quot;God forbids murder because it is wrong&quot; is a claim that wrongness exists independently from what God wills, and that God (for a reason unspecified) has decided to adhere to this concept.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Murder is wrong because God forbids it&#8221; is a claim that wrongness is defined by whatever God commands us not to do, whereas &#8220;God forbids murder because it is wrong&#8221; is a claim that wrongness exists independently from what God wills, and that God (for a reason unspecified) has decided to adhere to this concept.</p>
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		<title>By: sharon</title>
		<link>http://www.clockbackward.com/2009/07/22/the-missing-definition-of-morality/comment-page-1/#comment-593</link>
		<dc:creator>sharon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 25 Aug 2009 09:47:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.clockbackward.com/?p=383#comment-593</guid>
		<description>Please explain the difference between the two claims:

1. Murder is wrong because God forbids it?

&amp; 

2. God Forbids murder because it is wrong?

I look forward to your reply.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Please explain the difference between the two claims:</p>
<p>1. Murder is wrong because God forbids it?</p>
<p>&amp; </p>
<p>2. God Forbids murder because it is wrong?</p>
<p>I look forward to your reply.</p>
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